Doze T.C.-5 was one of the many heads on the scene in New York during the early Eighties, and he hasn't always gotten as much credit as he deserves for the contributions he made during those boom years. Everyone was searching for their own style back then, and he certainly found his and then some. But in addition to being an innovator, he also has his own personality, which, like his writing, he developed bit by bit over the years. His style is far from static; but throughout its development it has always been unique. You can see the evolution of his approach in his canvas pieces, his graphic arts work and his packaging design. He is living witness to the fact that the writing spirit is alive and able to adapt to many different media. At the same time, Doze is also a veteran B-boy, a member of the Rock Steady Crew. We talked to him about what's happening in the b-boying cypher nowadays. He also gave us some flicks of his trip to Brazil. New forms, new styles.

My first introduction to graff' was in '76, I was eleven years old. I was going to junior high school in mid town Manhattan. N.O.G.A. had a mural by Cliff, Dean, Nova and probably others that I can't remember. That piece was my first insight on graffiti. It was commissioned by a community center between 89th and 88th on Columbus. I was in school with heavy hitters like Dean 1 (3.Y.B). I used to skate in central park with this crew called Zoo York, so I hooked up with the Rebels. We would pass black books around and Zephyr would be like: ;quot; yo, your style is quite juicy, do you want to be down with my crew? ;quot;. I used to bomb with them (Rasta, Revolt, etc.). I met writers from the Bronx when I went to Art ;amp; Design. I did my first piece on a train with them. Art ;amp; design had a Writers Bench in the cafeteria. We would jump out the window and go bombing in mid day. A lot of famous writers went to school there. I created the crew I.B.M. at that time. I used to hang with Tack ;amp; Airborn from F.B.A. and my sons around the neighborhood and in Rock Steady Park would be like: ;quot; Doze, Teach me how to piece, do me an outline. ;quot; So I put on Poke, Eps, Ethic, Sound 7, lil' Spank.. That's when kids like West came into the picture. That's why you have these letters (pointing to photos of train pieces published in Stress mag.) and these characters influenced by me and Seen from the Five. We adapted our style from Chain 3. To this day I love his munchy crunchy pieces. They are chocolate crispy dope shit! We took that and made it our own style. We call it Lock-a -tron style with an other obvious influence by Case 2.
I caught the spirit of Broadway going down in the tunnel when it seemed like their were 100 writers down there at the same time. I was doing a Harm piece this time when there was a raid. They pulled in a raid train. People were running every where, trampling other writers or running into poles....
I never piece my name. I probably have only done 5 Doze pieces on trains. I felt more comfortable being the alias of an alias. You might have seen many pieces by me not even knowing I did them.

I was down with T.N.T. crew who I used to motion tag with. After that I started piecing with Skeme & Dez. The first time I bombed the Bronx was with Seen (T.C.-5). He took me to Gunhill road. He was bombing with this kid named Kems and Blade and Comet handed down the Five (T.C.-5) to them. So Seen put me down as we started hitting the 2's ;amp; 5's lines. We used names like Wiggles (that's how Mr. Wiggles From R.S.C. got his name) Bagel, T-Square, T-Bone, Snag, Snail, Pail, Trail, or heavy hitters like Twice. We used so many names that we had a lot of people wondering how many of us were down. It seemed like we were a giant crew.
I was like the relief kid. People would be short of one kid, so they would call me. If caracters were needed I would get a ring. Case or Mare would call me up and be like: " Doze, we need some characters (...) ". That was my thing. A lot of cars done back then have my characters in them.

When did you get into B-boying with Rock Steady Crew?

I got down with R.S.C. in '78 or '79. At the point when Poke was heavy hitting the ones with I.B.M. I had to put graffiti on hold for like two years because I was on tour with Rock Steady. I went to Europe, Japan and Australia. Hip hop has been through many different phases and generations. That time was the first wave of commercialization and commodification that destroyed it meaning that it had to go back underground. By the mid 80's hip hop was being totally rebuilt underground. After '84 writing and B-boying was marked as undesirable in the gallery scene and the club scene.

Right at this time crack was introduced to the neighborhood and at the same time came an enormous amount of guns. To me there is no mystery on who put it their. Hip Hop is a real motivating force that can be perceived as a threat. I am not trying to sound like Creepy Cruela but the real deal is that they saw this thing and felt like they had to shut it down. So to achieve that, crack was very effective.
What happened to me and to countless other writers or B-boys was getting caught up into selling crack, becoming a criminal, and progressively becoming a user. That was my doomsday and our downfall. I went threw trials and tribulations, many had to go underground our go through rehabilitation while people were just falling off one by one. Mad kids from the 80's are gone. My only chance to get away from this shit was an opportunity to go and work in California for Bad Boy Club. They came to New York at a club I was squatting and doing the installations. So I bounced to San Diego with $20 in my pocket and a furry Kangol on my head. I would walk on the beach with my radio blasting and people didn't know what the fuck to think.
I learned on the professional world of graphic arts and designing. Besides myself Haze and this kid at a company called L.A. Bronx were the first writers to get into the clothing business and then it just snowballed to what it is today.

The evolution of your style has gone some way now...

Yeah, it's a natural progression. After doing years and years of wild style caracters and letters with abstract fill ins, I fused the two elements into like wild style lock-a-tron techno-symbolism fusionism. Mixing the elements of wild style with abstract fill ins with cubic caracters experimenting and taking it to the next level. People back in the days like Phase or Slave weren't afraid of experimenting and doing new things. It's natural to always push the limits, it's what I have to do.

How do you feel when you see people today trying to copycat styles that were mastered over a decade ago?

It's nonsense. You have to learn from the past as a reference but it shouldn't be a crutch. That's why I am out here in Paris with my boys Jon, Sharp, Toxic and
A one because they escaped from New York and were not afraid to take it to the next level. Jon 1 was the first to leave. He was missing in New York and later I saw photos of his pieces and was bugging.

What are some of trecent activities?

I have been working in the
designing and graphic realm. In '91 I started a company called Kikwear and it snowballed into a very big business. But I got jerked and had to move on from that point. Now I do graphic work for a company called Next FX and have a clothing line called GM-5. It stands for Graphic Manipulation, Get Money, Guided Masses etc. We work in cooperation with Black Market Threads. GM-5 is the answer to T.C.-5 which is a closed family right now on a fraternity level. GM-5 is about taking writing to another level. Kaws is down, Twist is down, Os gemeos (the twins) in Brazil who are doing wild stuff.
I am about to do a back drop for a concert by the Fugees and Rage Against The Machine in Chiapas Mexico. The man who is going to shoot the video of the event saw my show and was moved by my hieroglyphic images related to the Myan Indians.